Wikinfo:Village pump/Archive 1

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From GetWiki to MediaWiki

As you can see, there is work to do, but the wiki has been transfered to the latest version of MediaWiki, Mediawiki-1.9.3 Probably all I'll do tonight FJB 00:27, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

The nostalgia skin works best... FJB 08:44, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
Hey, FJB what is going on? User:WHEELER
There are remnants of GetWiki coding remaining in the data base. It will take a while to find them, as well as learning this to display images. FJB 12:49, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Hooray!

The pump is pumping, hooray! Great work ! Terryeo 13:07, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Is this our new system? Is it going back to normal or this a new style with a new URL? Ohh, can we get a synopis of what these changes mean? What new benes? by User:WHEELER
The main benefit will be for those who edit both here and at Wikipedia. One system. More freedom here, but not a lot of fiddling with coding. Although the change back is going to be rough. FJB 14:50, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Will Wikinfo have more space for more articles? Will I be able to download more? Barbara Shack 15:00, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

I'm thinking of doing a clean install with a completely empty database. This would remain, but not be the public face. FJB 21:14, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Clickpress [1] is user friendly. Yesterday I saw a wiki press release that showed up in a google news search. We too could, I believe, give Clickpress a "press release" about the updated Wikinfo. Perhaps spelling out our SPOV, perhaps telling of intent, perhaps with a brief statement about editor registration. This might get more people involved. Terryeo 14:11, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Namespace messup

Kernigh sockpuppet writes: Several pages are in the wrong namespaces; this must be one of the "remnants of GetWiki coding" that FJB mentioned. Our old village pump is at MediaWiki:Village pump. Several other namespaces are wrong:

  • old "Wikinfo:" became new "MediaWiki:"
  • old "Wikipedia:" became new "Template:"
  • old "MediaWiki:" became new "Help:"
  • old "GetWiki:" became new "Category:"

Because "MediaWiki:" is the protected namespace for system messages, Special:Allmessages shows a mess caused by MediaWiki:About, MediaWiki:Editing, MediaWiki:Help.

I already miss our old GetWiki software and its simplicity (imports from Wikipedia, no categories, no templates with parameters), but I am an experienced MediaWiki user and hope to put Wikinfo's Special:Recentchanges in my feed reader now. --Kernigh sockpuppet 20:19, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for all the help, might have taken a while to discover that getwiki had become category. FJB 21:12, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
I miss GetWiki as well. The Wikipedia imports are what made it so flexible for users. I do welcome the MonoBook theme, though. I had been waiting for this theme for some time. Ksd5 18:11, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
We had to do something, incompatibilities were rapidly increasing. FJB 18:17, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

What's going on here? There are many comments from March about how everything's changed and weird and not working as well as it might, and it's now May and nothing seems to have changed! Which domain is going to be used? Namespaces seem well confused. Can we get rid of the 'index.php' in the URLs? It there any update on what sort of tech support Wikinfo is getting? Please, please, can someone say something?! Can we keep going with adding stuff to the site, or is everything going to fall in a heap before long?! I like this project, and want to be part of it, but there needs to be some certainty about where it's going (or not going). Sam Wilson (Canberra, Australia) 05:06, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Problem

  • First, I can't sign in. It won't accept my original password for some reason. What do I do?
  • Second, have we gone to new URL addresses? I must change my favorites over? Are we now permantently www.internet-encyclopeadia.org/index? Instead of "www.wikinfo.org"?
  • Right now I am editing without being signed in. Are we going to keep the mandatory sign in rule?67.177.152.74 12:03, 22 March 2007 (EDT)This was me User:WHEELER
Most people have been able to sign in. I'm not sure why you can't. You signed in yesterday and it was Ok. I don't think anything has changed. Not sure what is happening with the url. We will probably have to go back to mandatory signin because of spam. FJB 12:19, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
Yes, I am unable to signin with User:Fred Bauder FJB 12:24, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
But mail password worked. Fred 12:54, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
A couple of days ago I could not sign in. I clicked to get a new password and the software accepted the password the software emailed to me. And pleasently enough, immediately brought up a page to change my password. No problem since then. Terryeo 17:54, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
Got back on and logged in. Your original password message went to my junk mail folder. Just found out. Thanks and ignore that last request.
    • Are we now permantently www.internet-encyclopeadia.org/index? Instead of "www.wikinfo.org"?WHEELER 17:00, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
      • I hope that someone can make wiki.php redirect to index.php; most external links to Wikinfo are now broken. --Kernigh sockpuppet 17:33, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
        • There is a way to do that, I'll doubtless come across it again before long. The newer versions of Mediawiki have changed the default address from wiki to index. Likewise, I'm sure there is a way to keep the address from reverting to internet-enclopedia. Fred 21:30, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Aspects of the past to be cleared for a bright future

Chorus: Why do you cry out thus, unless at some vision of horror?
Cassandra: The house reeks of death and dripping blood.
Chorus: How so, it is but the odor of the altar sacrifice.
Cassandra: The stench is like a breath from the tomb.
                     Aeschylus, Agamemnon


Hi !

I have observed the development for a while. It did not feel right for me to let the following, at least in parts, unsaid:

Fred, I realise that zou must have had a lot of work with all the changes you made and the wiki software. I respect that you have put a lot of work into which you believe to be the best way for wikinfo or internet-encyclopedia to be what you have envisioned for it. Indeed, in that respect, compatibility might be, on the one hand, an asset. I have already said more to that somewhere else, on a page as to the software. Also, if not the exact URLs will be restored, some or much traffic from links to some or many articles might be lost.

But as man often has a tendency to be emotional, also the liking or disliking of the interface plays a role.The dislike for the way many delitionists and administrators on .- not only the English - wikipedia act, might "attach" to the software used there as well. Getwiki has, in my eyes, a very clean, beautiful feeling. I have liked using it. I appreciated its being there as such.

Also, now having categories... that is ambivalent. Categorizing can be helpful to find something - but as e.g. the category "pseudoscience", or, maybe worse in effect, "pseudoscientist", on wikipedia shows... so much opinion flowing into it. Judging... Not really helpful, in the end, leading to bias, but not truth, probably.

But, more important (following a suggestion that had been made the same day changes began, but it is not possible to see that now because the old village - pump contributions do not seem to be accessible for the moment) I have hesitated saying this until now, and it does not feel pleasant, but it does feel right to say it somehow, so I do): It has been made clear that you are the only one responsible for politics. People decide to contribute on wikinfo on this base, though for many it might not be thus important, but, nevertheless, as to positive law, that is the base, I guess..

Thus, it is of course your right to decide things related to this, and as the owner of the domain and the one responsible for that anyhow.

But a basis for getting contributors is that, to a certain extent, they can trust in that what they do will not be undone. This trust can be established by rules anounced and being followed. I have not been aware of any rule being broken by proteus on wikinfo itself. It may or not may be that he has done something you could consider detrimental to wikinfo, and as such you may or not have seen it as your right within a non-explicit, inherent rule of policy as existed at that stage to do as you have done (but, nevertheless, if the law-givers are also decide of interpretation alone - then it can be the end of the manifestation of outer justice in that realm for a second, in a way, maybe, if looking on the legal or policy-aspects (and, by the way - policy is... just policy ?). Maybe it is fairer indeed and a necessity of privacy not to tell what has happened for whatever mistakes or not have been made by someone or not. But, from my feeling, it has been unjust to forbid proteus to "complain" as you put it by announcing to "ban" him if he did so. In most systems of justice there are, as I belive, possibilities to remonstrate, or at least to tell another view. You have undone this for wikinfo. This has left a very bad test. For those who feel like that, this may be regrettable. It may be understandable, your actions may be justified from some higher point, but that action of forbidding him to "complain" - it did not feel right. And what has come out of it - is it peace ? Is it justice ? I suppose it is bad feelings on both sides.

It has left me hesitant to do much on wikinfo again. That is no problem, I have not done much here, and I intended to lessen my activities on the internet if possible. But, for justice, goodness, the well-being of all: it might be better get to a point of calmness and peace, feel (in the sense of "perceive") what has to be done and do it from there. But not from the point of the view of one seperate individual, but from the deepest point, from justice and from peace.

Furthermore, to change the subject, the special German letters on the pages which can be reached from Deutsch:Einleitungsseite do not seem to work here. I do not really feel like changing that by hand.... maybe something as to configuring the software.

By the way, it was not possible to log in.

If you dislike what I have written, delete it, from the base as well, if you wish to get a tabula rasa . But please let it stand for two weeks or so, that would do justice a favour, I think.)

Good luck and, despite having talked about things that at least were matters of controversy, Peace to everyone. StarofLight.

I can give you a new password, if you continue to edit. Fred 23:38, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
Ok, thank you, I will get back to you then, if I do. StarofLight.

comment and question

May I point out that "SPOV" (symathetic point of view) might be stated "IPOV" (independant points of view). It might be uttered, "eye pov" and might have better public appeal. On another topic, the question I want to ask is: Which is more wanted, an article adapted from Wikipedia with its reference appearing, Adapted from the Wikipedia article . ., or an article created freshly with no attribution to Wikipedia? Terryeo 12:14, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

Generally it matters not. Starting a new fresh article is okay, but so is importing one from Wikipedia, or Wikia, or RogueBasin, or Project Gutenberg, or GNU, or anything that gives us enough copyright permission. This is a wiki, so I think that wiki users who prefer to start fresh articles should do so, while users who prefer to import articles should do so. --Kernigh sockpuppet 17:46, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
Well said. My own mood varies. Sometimes I just love working with a good Wikipedia article with nice images, sometimes I have some idea I want to pursue. Strictly speaking importing Wikipedia articles does not move the Earth forward, as anyone who wishes to view them may as well go there, and edit them there as well. What is really needed, not only here, but in general are articles of significance, articles which move us all forward, or emphasize important phenomena. Mark Twain once said, and Al Gore repeated, "What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know, its what we know for sure that just ain't so." Fred 00:06, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
LOL, thank you very much. Terryeo 12:11, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

What happened to a lot of our policies? Right now I am editing without being signed in. Second, SPOV is not on the Front page. We have ""subject in a positive light"". SPOV is not IPOV. IPOV is covered under Original research. SPOV is that the article is written from a sympathetic role. It is only a person that has deep knowledge of it can express. The word "positive" is not a good term either. I would like to see SPOV return to the Main page and a policy of signing in.USER WHEELER64.136.242.130 20:35, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

I have fixed that one, which is at Wikinfo:Sympathetic point of view. All Wikinfo:* pages been renamed to Mediawiki:* It would be helpful to give them all new names in the form Wikinfo:* But please don't continue to use the Wikinfo:Policy/* format. That is not expected by Wikipedia users. We will eventually have trouble with anonymous editors, but have none so far. I have installed a simple CAPTCHA which inhibits insertion of links by bots. Fred 21:37, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

redirect

Apparently, redirect is not working at this moment because the Brahms redirect page brings up a redirect page that should go to Johannes Brahms but stops. A user must click on the redirect page to arrive at the Johannes Brahms page. Terryeo 12:42, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

there can be no text above "#REDIRECT [[Johannes Brahms]]" Fred 13:26, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
Brahms for testing Fred 13:29, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
This did not work immediately after change due to cacheing by ibiblio. Fred 13:30, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
I see it does work though, and thank you for responding, Fred Terryeo 12:03, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

Can you check the Marshall Petain/REDIRECT Philippe P鴡in please (and can assorted corrections be made: to save a few seconds - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Petain) Jackiespeel 11:56, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

Images

We have not lost our images. To restore an image go to its page. There you will find a link to the image at the top of the page. (Ignore the scary warning.) Copy the image to your computer, then "Upload a new version of this file". (Just upload the same image). It will over-write the old file and become usable. The coding is now the same as Wikipedia: [[Image:AuroraB.jpg|300px|right|thumb|Aurora borealis]]. Note the size of the picture is expressed as pixels using "300px" as the code, not "scale:30" expressed as a percentage. Fred 00:06, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Well, I'm already doing this for hours now. - Mr Mancala 11:20, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
Aurora borealis
Aurora borealis

Problem

Here I can edit within a section, in the Classical definition of republic, I can't edit within a section. The Section comes up blank. Can somebody check that out.WHEELER 08:27, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Is there someone looking into this problem? Bumping this concern.WHEELER 12:48, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
I couldn't edit a section either of that article and got the same results that you got. However, one can edit the whole article. May I suggest, edit the whole article and save it. Then re-try editing a section. I too have found a slightly odd result here and there. Terryeo 14:00, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
Yes, I can edit the whole thing too but I wanted to put this glitch on notice.WHEELER 14:31, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
Well, Terryeo, I did a little experiment. I edited the whole thing. And then, I went to the section edits and they did come up. So, I guess that is the solution. Edit the main article alltogether and then once saved, the article can then be edited by sections. But nonetheless this situation should be looked into.WHEELER 14:39, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Query

  • Since we have new software, there is new stuff on the "Recent Changes" page such as this red exclamation mark, "!". What does that mean? Us in the administration of Wikinfo, probably need to be informed about it.WHEELER 15:54, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
    • If you look at the diffs for the edits marked with the red explanation mark you will see "[Mark as patrolled]", if the edit is Ok, click on that link. If it is not, do whatever is appropriate. Fred 19:10, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
      • Thanks. It took awhile to find it but the [Mark as patrolled], for everyone else, is in the right top column.WHEELER 20:23, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
  • Second, I am guessing that the numbers appearing in the parenthesis with a (+#) or a (-#) is the amount of changes in the article? Is this a good guess?WHEELER 15:54, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
    • Those numbers are the number of bytes added or deleted so that;s a good guess. For English 1 byte = 1 letter. 86.41.161.8 20:32, 2 April 2007 (EDT)
  • Third, we no longer have automatic Attribution at the bottom as when we borrow articles from Wikipedia? Is this the case? No more automation? We have to manually do the attribution?WHEELER 15:54, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
  • Are categories now in use here at Wikinfo? Can we start using them?WHEELER 15:54, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
    • Categories work fine. Just type [[Category:Example]] into a page to try them out. 86.41.161.8 20:32, 2 April 2007 (EDT)
  • Fifth, Wikinfo articles appear under TWO different urls now. Under "Internet-Encyclopedia" and "Wikinfo". I spent this morning going to old posts and retyping new URL's to articles. Can we use both? Y or N.WHEELER 16:01, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
  • Sixth, I see we have kept the site counters on the articles, but we have lost our Contrib meters. Are we going to get these back?WHEELER 17:13, 27 March 2007 (EDT)
I'm not sure where those were, but I saw them in the database the other day. Fred 19:30, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Dictionary definitions, links to websites, quotations and source texts

These are each likely to develop many articles. It might be nice to have a header page for each of these. Each header page could include the alphabet. The alphabet letter then points to a page listing the entries of that catagory. And the article links back to the header page. In the long run this might not work. But as a beginning it would keep a roof over a catagory, give an editor a clue about what to include in the catagory, and a page which all of a catagory's articles link to. What do you think? Terryeo 12:43, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

My intention is that they would be included in articles in the main namespace, but open to alternatives. FJB 13:06, 30 March 2007 (EDT)
That sounds good. I like their being included as an article in the main namespace. Does it seem reasonable that all dictionary articles have some common linking element, such as a category (Dictionary Definition), (or other blanket link) that connects all of them? There might be moments a reader would search a dictionary's terms. Alternatively, there might be a moment when a reader would wish to search search only source text titles or links to websites. Some method of keeping these subjects separated, while keeping all of these subject under a single roof seems necessary ? Oh Great, I see Fred has pointed us a bit about website links. Terryeo 16:25, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
A category "Dictionary definition" would get way too big and the page would be unusable. I think it should just be assumed that if a subject calls for definitions, they should be included, perhaps on a disambiguation page if it is that sort of word. In the case of external links, that should be in a section at the bottom of the page, perhaps entitled, "web directory". The interlinking between these things and quotes and sources should prove productive. FJB 16:42, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Interwiki links

Updated these and make the Wikipedia interwiki links work also, for example [[w:fish]] will link to the Wikipedia article "fish". Fred 16:50, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

412 precondition error

I am getting an error message and I can't go or edit articles:

Precondition Failed
The precondition on the request for the URL /index.php evaluated to false.
Apache/2 Server at www.internet-encyclopedia.org Port 80

What is going on?WHEELER 18:54, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

I have shut down my Internet Ex. rebooted and still can't get in. I can reach Elements of Socialism (book) but I can't reach any of the chapters in the book. If you click on the links, one gets a green error message above. And when I do, I can't get to any other site after I do. I can't even go from there to 'Community Portal'.WHEELER 19:03, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

So how did you write this? FJB 19:41, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
Seems to affect Socialism also. Fred 19:47, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
I had to go back to my favorites reclick from my favorites. I can't even edit Elements of Socialism (book). It even crashed my internet just a bit ago. I can go every where else in Wikinfo but not that site or edit or access the other chapters. I can access this page Elem. of Soc. Ideal of international solidarity from my user page but I can't access this from the mother page Elements of Socialism (book). Once I touch that site, I can't go anywhere else and have to resort pulling down my favorites from my internet explorer.WHEELER 19:50, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
Yes, all instances contain the word "Socialism". Fred 19:51, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
It is centered about that article Elements of Socialism (book). I can't even view the history. The word "socialism" has nothing to do with it. Fred 20:22, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Hopefully it is an ibiblio problem. FJB 19:56, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

http://www.checkupdown.com/status/E412.html http://www.modwest.com/help/kb1-322.html ModSecurity Fred 20:03, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
I have asked ibiblio and will check out the shape of the article in the database tomorrow. FJB 20:20, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
I found the same error at Belonging (race). I can't even view the page. I believe that the () are affecting the software. Somehow the Arete (excellence) is not affected by the software. WHEELER 14:41, 2 April 2007 (EDT)
Problem solved. I don't get it. First I got a 412 error, and now I don't have it. Well nevermind now.WHEELER 14:43, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

Trying an experiment. Elem. of Soc. Ideal of international solidarity. I am going to see if by posting anew the link here, it then begins to work.WHEELER 14:55, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

The experiment does work. I post another here: Elem. of Soc. Socialism and universal peace, and Elem. of Soc. The basis for world peace. Hopefully these links begin to work as well.WHEELER 14:59, 2 April 2007 (EDT)
Well, the article Elements of Socialism (book can be viewed but I still can't get any of the links to work on that page. I can reach all those links from this page on the Village Pump but can't reach them from their home page. Very Interesting. WHEELER 15:03, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

The problem is ModSecurity which has be set to blacklist an extensive list of words commonly found in spam messages. Please don't put any such word on this page or it will be affected too. I know the word which is in the Elements of Socialism (book) article. It is a rather ordinary word. I am talking to the ibiblio programmers. FJB 17:12, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

Just a reminder. It has been a week and the links within the article still show the 412 error.WHEELER 19:36, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

Today, I encountered a ""Floating"" 412 error. First, I couldn't get from Life is War to Temporal Order and then from Temporal Order to the Recent changes. And still there is a 412 error on the Elements of Socialism (book) article.WHEELER 12:29, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

I'm continuing to talk to the ibiblio developers. They are considering an exception for us. Apparently spamming has been a problem on hosted blogs. Fred 12:46, 25 April 2007 (EDT)
There is another 412 error on National Socialism. Nothing works on that page. and the Elements of Socialism (book) article is still has the error.WHEELER 11:16, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
No word yet. I suppose we could do a workaround by not using the magic words in the title, but I would rather wait til they come around. Fred 11:32, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

This has now been fixed. Please advise regarding any recurrences for any page. Fred 14:30, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

Thanks a million! Thanks to Fred and any Ibiblio staff!!!!WHEELER 19:49, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

Australia article

Australia displays itself oddly on my 2 browsers. I might have a local problem. I see the wikinfo logo desplayed in the article space rather than to the top left. Some of the HTML that makes up the article is displayed. I tried a few things and could not find the problem, on the other hand I don't get an error. Terryeo 13:16, 1 April 2007 (EDT)

I too found the same error from my computer.WHEELER 13:29, 1 April 2007 (EDT)
This was on the Poland and I think the Thailand articles too. All the country articles need to be updated from Wikipedia (or rewritten). 66.243.196.131 15:47, 1 April 2007 (EDT)

What the fuck!?

  • Proteus baned!?
  • MediaWiki 1.9!?
  • Old domain name!?

I would be very interested to know exactly what happened. I can't find where all these changes were discussed or why there were made. What made you give up on GetWiki? Thanks, 86.41.161.8 20:12, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

Proteus did his discussing with the ibiblio staff. For the survival of the project it was necessary to upgrade the software and remove Proteus from positions of responsibility. The conditions of his ultimatums were not fulfilled. Fred 20:35, 2 April 2007 (EDT)
It was not the ibiblio staff which did this, nor did they insist on it. It was my decision based on the effect of his behavior. Fred 20:36, 2 April 2007 (EDT)
To be honest his behaver was always IMO very poor and you will probably be better off without him. For example I love the "Welcome" I got off him (User_talk:Me) and the idea that you need to login to protect your privacy. A lot of good that does when he posts "You are posting from Eircom Networks in Ireland" on the page for all to see (Might as well give out my IP address at the same time!

Moving on, you need to update MediaWiki:Sidebar. Some of the links are not used and others point to the wrong pages. Here is what I think it should look like: 

* navigation
** mainpage|mainpage
** Wikinfo:Village pump|Village pump
** recentchanges-url|recentchanges
** randompage-url|randompage
** helppage|help

86.41.161.8 20:48, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

I want to mirror the Wikipedia portals and policy pages for the convenience of Wikipedia users. If you know how, I would appreciate advice on getting "hosted by ibiblio" into the footer. I'm not sure how this is expressed in the software. Fred 21:21, 2 April 2007 (EDT)
The sidebar is what doesn't display properly in the Australia article. (I think) Terryeo 03:09, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
The Australia article now displays properly. Terryeo 16:34, 7 April 2007 (EDT)
I still think you should get rid of non working links from the sidebar and add them back when the pages are up and running. To add "hosted by ibiblio" in the footer you would need to edit Monobook.php in the Skins folder. Put it somewhere inside the <div id="footer"> tag. 86.41.161.8 08:49, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
Thanks for your concern. I was also sad to see Proteus gone. I wish he wasn't but ow well. WHEELER 08:58, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Lost In Espace

JA: What is the "real" URL of Wikinfo now? I keep being switched back and forth among different URLs, skins, and also being logged out w/o notice. Jon Awbrey 09:40, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

They are all real. I think the logout problem will clear up if you keep logging in. Good to see you back. I'll get to the <math> problem again at some point. Fred 09:54, 9 April 2007 (EDT)
We are without our expert programmer. The upside is that we no longer must do what he wants, but we do have major unsolved problem, not all of which can be simply solved by drawing on obvious resources. Fred 13:12, 9 April 2007 (EDT)
I'm willing to do some stuff and have some software experience. How may I proceed ?

New ibiblio logo

A "hosted by ibiblio" logo to replace the one at the bottom of the page. Same logo, just without the silly black corners.

Also why does the sidebar still show misnamed links (This is not the Community Portal) and links to ugly pages (Portal:Current events)!? The code to fix this was given above, and it can be done by any sysop (WHEELER this means you! :)

Go ahead and change configure this to your own satisfaction, but please put all pages in the Wikinfo namespace, Wikinfo:Current events, Wikinfo:Community portal, etc. Fred 18:39, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

One last thing, PNG files can't be uploaded to the site for some reason. I remember having the same problem on my wiki. Try adding 

$wgFileExtensions   = array('png','jpg','jpeg', 'svg', 'gif');
$wgMimeDetectorCommand= "file -bi";

to LocalSettings.php . I think that's how I fixed the problem. Gmcfoley 19:59, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

We are having trouble with .svg also. I think it is the way ibiblio has ImageMagick configured. Fred 18:37, 12 April 2007 (EDT)
The error message is "The file is corrupt or has an incorrect extension. Please check the file and upload again." This with nothing wrong with the image. Fred 19:30, 12 April 2007 (EDT)
However, I think we should have only one help ticket at a time going; they are still considering the blacklist of certain common words, but have not replied. I'll remind them. Fred 19:30, 12 April 2007 (EDT)
That's a good ibiblio lego image, but I can't figure out how to replace it. Editing a page doesn't expose the page the lego appears at and I can't find it to replace it. I've sysop status but don't don't know to implement the commands you adroitly suggest. Terryeo 18:01, 12 April 2007 (EDT)
I applaud and want to second your enthusiasm. FJB may need some extra hands and if you know more about computer programming--then, have at it. I don't have a clue either but wish you luck.WHEELER 18:17, 12 April 2007 (EDT)
Had to upload the image to $wgStylePath/common/images/ and edit Skin.php Thanks for the new image. I had not noticed the dots. Fred 18:37, 12 April 2007 (EDT)
It looks nice. The 3 logos visible on pages are quite different from Wikipedia and feel appropriate. Myself, I like the bottom two much better than wikipedia's "mediawiki" and "wikimedia" which (I think) tend to cause confusion. Terryeo 19:27, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

Protect section

I have added an extension to the /extensions folder ProtectSection.php see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ProtectSection It will, by use of the tags </protect>(section protected)</protect>, protect the section between the beginning and ending tags. To work the forward slash in the first </protect> should not be included. This should be useful for signed articles, copyright notices, and links back to Wikipedia. Please test and comment. FJB 16:49, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

It works when I am not logged in, but gives no warning that the section is protected until after the edit is attempted. Of course, one can see the tag, if one is looking for it. Fred 16:52, 17 April 2007 (EDT)
Sysops can edit the protected section. Fred 17:06, 17 April 2007 (EDT)
I'm not logged in. I first edited and saved Wikinfo:Sandbox and then edited and saved an article while not logged in, to see if things were working. Those histories show that this IP address edited. Things are not quite all working, yet I guess. 208.106.20.67 19:37, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

While not logged in, I tried to add protection to a section of sandbox. I could not save the edit and got:

  • Forbidden

From Wikinfo: You tried to add or remove a protected section.
Terryeo 19:48, 17 April 2007 (EDT) Exploring further, I find that as a sysop I can protect a section of a page for a user who is not logged (me) from editing it. 208.106.20.67 19:55, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

Protecting the bottom message, "from wikipedia" would be an easy thing to do. 1. Should we just go ahead and do that broadly? and 2. we could cause the reader to see the link more cleanly. We could [the link]. Then the wikipedia notice would be about one line long and the bottom line of an article. Yes/No/Abort ? Terryeo 12:26, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

I like the link to be visible. I would not waste time protecting existing notices, just make it a part of standard practice. Fred 12:45, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

The wiki down for a few moments ?

About 9:09 AM, pacific daylight time, for about 5 minutes, I got an error message when accessing any page. Terryeo 12:26, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Unsuccessful attempt to install Extension:CheckUser. FJB 12:32, 18 April 2007 (EDT)
Thanks for saying. I've seen it not working with the same error returned here and there for brief periods of time. I'll just assume similar sorts of things are happening. Terryeo 20:11, 20 April 2007 (EDT)
I could set up a second installation to use for testing, but it is easy to just try it out and flip it back if it doesn't work. It's not like we have lots of traffic. Fred 22:01, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

How does the mediawiki software fit into the loop

At some point, all if Wikinfo's requests for pages (by readers and editors) pass through a machine running mediawiki software, do I understand the situation accurately ? I suppose this is a routing question. Terryeo 20:11, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

sure wiki.php as configured by defaultsettings.php as modified by localSettings.php. Fred 22:22, 20 April 2007 (EDT)
while checking to see if this was really true I found this. Adding $wgMimeDetectorCommand = "file -bi"; to LocalSettings cleared up the .png problem we have had. Fred 22:22, 20 April 2007 (EDT)
Thank you. Terryeo 22:25, 20 April 2007 (EDT)
.svg works now too, but gives a strange error warning. Fred 22:30, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Oversight

The oversight extension has been installed, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Oversight Fred 17:27, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

An anomaly

An anonymous user just edited in The Daily Show‎; 17:47 . . (-186) . . 130.126.246.122 (Talk | block). When I patrolled it, No changes were noted by the software---yet it says that 186 has been minused. I don't understand nor could I find what went missing nor do I have the time to read the two articles line by line. WHEELER 14:03, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

No change made. Edit page, save page without changes. 66.243.196.131 16:10, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

Help pages

These need much info added - including help for newbies, contacts etc.

(Wikipedian, intending to contribute, whose library terminal session is just about to run out.)(user:Jackiespeel

Yes, I'm doing quite a bit or work on these, but still not enough time. Fred 16:12, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

Using comparisons with Wikipedia - the "queries and corrections" pages should have more lists which can be added to (rather than long texts on what can be done). Also - the Wikipedia system of allowing people to edit on blocked-shared-IPs on signing in could be set up in advance of the necessity (though the time-wasters who cause the problem do not appear to cause problems on the other wikis I have looked at, as the two IPs I am referring to are not blocked).

Jackiespeel 12:11, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

Some math notes

Fred 09:47, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

Suggestion - with mathematical formulae a brief explanation is given - eg "This is used in xxxx to modify/calculate yyyy" etc for those of us who come across a reference to the term and want more than mathematical-symbol-soup. Jackiespeel 12:06, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

Template:Wiki

{{Wiki}}


Adapted from the Wikipedia article, "Wikinfo:Village pump/Archive 1" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikinfo:Village_pump/Archive_1, used under the GNU Free Documentation License.
Search for "Village_pump/Archive_1" on Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons, Wiktionary, Wikiquote, Wikibooks, Mediawiki Wikia, Wikitravel, Google Advanced Search, Yahoo Advanced Search, WorldCat Advanced Search, Amazon, Recent NY Times, Older NY Times.


As you can see this does not work for project pages. Fred 13:36, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

How about making another template that uses the project: namespace, or modify it by adding a parameter that includes it --wL<speak·check>

Vandal

There is vandal running around the wiki. I don't think I have the necessary powers to revert changes so any admins out there please take a look.Ejn21 08:21, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

"Requests for development" lists

As with Wikipedia - expanding articles (as with the Pope page - refers exclusively to the one in Rome, but with external links to others), "major rearrangements required" etc. Jackiespeel 17:46, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

You can make a disambiguation page. You can move the page to Pope (Roman). And you can make other pages on popes, like the Coptic Pope.WHEELER 22:15, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

New Vandal

Doppelbock is another vandal from the German Wikipedia, perhaps the same person as Oberzensor ans Unterzensor. Is it possible to protect the page so that I am the only one who could change its contents?- Mr Mancala 07:04, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

You are wrong ;) Btw: User:Mr Mancala is in real Ralf Gering, who is also the person behind the IPs from the Range 89.55.... Well, logging in and out, feeble attempts to betray this community, just like in de-wp. Funny how he talks about censorship and vandalism in the german wikipedia while he doesn't meet the minimum standards required to work in a community like this or wikipedia. --Doppelbock 07:13, 21 June 2007 (EDT)
I have made Mr Mancala a sysop. You can protect the page, if it is really necessary and may block Doppelbock, if it is actually necessary. I have left a note on his talk page explaining that original research is welcome here and that criticism should be placed in a separate but linked article. Fred 07:37, 21 June 2007 (EDT)
Thank you. I am an admin in several Yahoo! forums about board games and intentional communities for up to seven years (the latter with over 700 members). And, I hope, this will stop soon as I would rather like to add articles which were deleted in the German wikipedia for political, racist, sexist or "economic" reasons. - Mr Mancala 07:48, 21 June 2007 (EDT)
Excellent, as you can tell from my name I have a German background, but deep suspicions of its culture. I hope I can depend on you to guard the integrity of German contributions to Wikinfo. Fred 07:52, 21 June 2007 (EDT)


Some open words from an openminded german Wikipedian

Dear Fred,

please excuse my bad english, I promise you not to write an english article with this rudimentary knowledge of a foreign language. ;-)

Mr. Mancala used in the last days several IP-Addresses of the range 89.55.0.0/16. Making him sysop means to put the fox in charge of the henhouse. He insulted a honorable Sysop on de.wikipedia by calling him "an insane idiot" on en.wikipedia and tried to get back to normal without apologizing for that. To me it sounds like someone has to read the Netiquette again and again, till he unterstands his mistake.

I'm sorry for the vandalism the other did the last hours, but unterstand their anger about someone who acts in such a - sorry for this hard word - antisocial way. Please rethink the idea of putting such a person like Ralf Gering in charge, but I will respect your decision. Please persuade him to drop some words of excuse and tell him to avoid de.wikipedia, if he is so fed up of it. Otherwise I will try to persuade this users to stop this actions.

THX in Advance and Greetings Unterleiten 08:34, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

I will respond to these accusations only once. GNU1742 deleted an article I wrote about 55Stones after just 90 seconds, although (or probably rather because) I told him before that I will give some reasons for keeping the article soon. It was a serious mistake to react as I did (although it resulted from the above provocation), which I admitted in the following discussion (saying that it was morally wrong). I didn't hear anything from your "honorable" anonymous sysop in return. However, I was attacked by several friends of this sysop, while my replies (and those of another user who tried to mediate) were repeatedly removed and I was blocked. That's what I call manipulation. I don't think I will totally avoid the German Wikipedia just because of some hooligans (the fanatical net vandals who have appeared at Wikinfo), because several other users want me to stay. I even had a phone call last night with someone who said that we should have a beer together when I come to his city. The people from the German wiki who vandalized Wikinfo really showed what kind of character they have and which is pretty common not only at the German wiki, but also among Germans in general. It is really odd that you want to start a discussion here and at the same time suppress it at the German wiki. If you are really open-minded as you claim you should make a discussion possible at the German wiki, instead of defending the manipulations and the censorship which is happening there. - Mr Mancala 09:09, 21 June 2007 (EDT)
There was a request for deletion on March 6th, and you ought to know, that bringing a deleted article back is a cause for speedydeletion. If you mean, that insulting a person behind a pseudonym harms nobody, then you are wrong. And a cause for keeping that article in future is a cause to post that article in future, I hate it, if people have no patience. Either the topic is now of interest or its not, there is no inbetween. And to be honest, I only saw only messages on Gnu's user talk. Unterleiten 11:29, 21 June 2007 (EDT)
I don't understand everything you wrote because your English isn't very clear (no insult meant). The article on 55Stones was deleted 15 months ago. Since then the game was implemented for free online-play on the Canadian website SuperDuperGames (in October 2006), and its BoardGameGeek article had over 1600 views in the last 16 months, which is quite a lot for a non-commercial abstract strategy game. People from Italy, Sweden, Austria, Canada, and the USA (I think even Australia) play it, there is a ranking list (at SDG) and a recent rule change was initiated by the well-known American game expert Clark D. Rodeffer because extensive play showed that one opening wasn't balanced in a sufficient manner by the old pie rule (pretty specific term, but perhaps you know the game of Hex, which was invented by two famous mathematicians). So, it is definitely not a game which is just played by my friends and me in my living-room in a remote village which nobody knows.
I never meant nor did I say or write that insulting an anonymous/pseudonymous person is correct. It was a bad reaction that followed a bad provocation. Btw, according to German law, you cannot insult anonymous users - they are simply not persons in a legal sense. In fact, it could have even been possible that GNU1742 is a machine (I tried to find out his identity, but after googling GNU1742 for an hour I gave up), his deletion appears to have happened rather mechanically. BTW, this kind of mindless behavior (again, no insult meant) is just too common. I talked with a professor who is a Wiki admin and she was rather astonished that the article on Gender inclusive language was removed again (she has an international reputation as a feminist theorist). So, not even her expertise is respected by other Wiki admins. The fanatical vandalism committed by the GNU1742 Fan Club at Wikinfo was revealing and she found it a shame what Germans have done here (despite she knew that I had insulted GNU1742). Anyway, I don't want to argue with you. I just hope, you will contribute in a positive way to our project (German language articles are fine). - Mr Mancala 14:43, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

The rules are different here than they are on Wikipedia. Opposite in many cases, but courtesy is appreciated in both venues. Fred 17:16, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

Can't seem to stay logged in

Hello, I am using Tor, and I cannot seem to stay logged in. It feels like Wikinfo stops accepting my cookie if my exit node changes, i.e. I am coming through a different IP address, but then accepts it again on the off-chance my exit node changes back to whatever it was when I logged in.

Is there anything to be done? An option to not disable cookies when one's IP address changes? This would be useful for dial-up users was well as Tor users.

Thanks for not blocking Tor!  : )

Armed Blowfish 19:00, 3 July 2007 (EDT)

I hear you, but I don't have the technical expertise to solve your problem. Please be patient. FJB should be able to help you. If not, he goes to the IT guys that sponsor this site at Ibiblio. Please be patient. It could be just a software glitch somewhere. So please be patient until FJB contacts you. I will leave a note on his user page.WHEELER 19:49, 3 July 2007 (EDT)
Don't worry, I'm not going any where. It is nice that you all don't block Tor.  : ) Thanks, Armed Blowfish 20:04, 3 July 2007 (EDT)
You need to stay on one ip during your editing session. Fred 21:41, 4 July 2007 (EDT)
I use Microsoft Vista and Firefox 2.0.0.5 and the same IP during one edit session, but I keep getting logged off every 4 minutes as well. Sorry to be the bringer of bad news!
Are there pages here where I can learn about wikinfo's categories which seem to be very different compared to those articles I import from Wikipedia that are already (wrongly) categorised?...Gaimhreadhan (kiwiexile at DMOZ) talk • 14:24, 29 July 2007 (EDT)

Name-dropping URLs

I'm name-dropping, that is, dropping internet-encyclopdia's URL into comments here and there on the internet as reference. If this is undesireable, sound off and I'll quit doing it. Yo. Terryeo 14:15, 5 July 2007 (EDT)

Spamdexing is generally considered black-hat search engine optimisation, and search engines attempt to minimise the effect of it, although they don't really notice minor spamdexing. However, wikis are already fairly well search engine optimised by design. Peace, Armed Blowfish 16:25, 5 July 2007 (EDT)
There is nothing wrong with copying any current Wikipedia article here before using it as a reference. Fred 16:50, 5 July 2007 (EDT)
I don't think that is what we were talking about, or else I am very confuzzled. Best wishes, Armed Blowfish, 17:07, 5 July 2007 (EDT)
The reference can be to our article, not theirs. Fred 18:07, 5 July 2007 (EDT)
Okay. I was not referring to copying over articles, but rather to adding links on random webpages. Search engines recommend following general good website design practices that make your site better for both people and search engines (wikis are good at this), and not focusing your attention on the search engine. Best wishes, Armed Blowfish 18:20, 5 July 2007 (EDT)

Links on random webpages is no good. That was not Terryeo had in mind anyway, I hope. Fred 22:46, 5 July 2007 (EDT)

I don't know. I believe I am confuzzled.... Peace, Armed Blowfish 22:28, 6 July 2007 (EDT)
I could have said it more cleanly but Fred understood me the first time. I'm using wikinfo as a source of information here and there on the internt. I'm pointing to a specific wikinfo article to expand a noted piece of information. Happy Ho Ho's. Terryeo 10:50, 9 July 2007 (EDT)
Retrieved from "http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/Wikinfo:Village_pump/Archive_1"
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